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Does God will that we should suffer?
The Catholic Church teaches that God either wills or allows everything that happens in the world. Even our own personal suffering. I've often thought God has allowed me to suffer through something in order to strengthen my faith or patience or perseverance. And just as Jesus cried out to God three times for his cup of suffering to pass, He also gave up his own will for that of the Father. Is this the lesson then? For us to cry out to God for help, for mercy, for relief and yet to trust enough that we should give up our own will for the will of God. Especially as a mom, I look to Mary as my example - let it be done to me according to Your Word.
What are your thoughts on God allowing suffering? or even His willing that we should suffer? I know suffering in itself may be the result of our sinfulness and fallen state but if suffering leads to such awesome redemption, grace and mercy and we can surely believe that God is the source of all good that comes from suffering, what stops us from concluding that God must have his hand, so to speak, in knowing what we need to suffer or see in the world as suffering in order to act, to grow and eventually to spend eternity with Him in Heaven?
What are your thoughts on God allowing suffering? or even His willing that we should suffer? I know suffering in itself may be the result of our sinfulness and fallen state but if suffering leads to such awesome redemption, grace and mercy and we can surely believe that God is the source of all good that comes from suffering, what stops us from concluding that God must have his hand, so to speak, in knowing what we need to suffer or see in the world as suffering in order to act, to grow and eventually to spend eternity with Him in Heaven?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Carol on -
I don't think that we can properly say that God WILLS suffering of any kind. He allows it....for our own good AND because suffering is part of a freely fallen world. Even physical suffering (disease, disabled bodies, disasters etc.) are part of The Fall. The whole world hurts because that first sin happened. I am not saying that diseases are a result of personal sin, just that disease exists because that First Sin allowed evil to flourish in the world. So, God doesn't WILL any of that. He can't because He is All Good. But, because He is all Good AND all Powerful, He can bring good from any evil: even the suffering that is a result of personal failure. To say that God Wills suffering of any kind is to call that suffering GOOD, and it isn't....even though we may BENEFIT from experiencing it. The way I understand Catholic Church teaching is that the BENEFIT is God's work, the SUFFERING is only that which HE allows to exist to preserve our freedom.
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Permalink Reply by Karen Cross on -
I love how you wrote this Carol. I think you are right on. What you said really makes a lot of sense. I think there are so many people that struggle with why God allows all this suffering and they allow themselves to fall away from God for that reason. It's really very sad.
When I look back on my life, I know that while I led my self-centered, God-less life, it was for a reason. While I'm ashamed of some of the things I did, I know that it was all for a reason and that I will be a better person for it. It's important for people to remember that God is always with us, suffering or not.
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Permalink Reply by Milehimama on
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I don't think God wills suffering. Suffering, sickness, and death were not part of His original plan for us. These things came about due to original sin.
However, He can always draw good from bad, and He uses suffering to help us, purify us, and draw us ever closer to Him. He allows suffering.
God is not the cause of suffering, He's the cure!
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Permalink Reply by Leticia Velasquez on -
I attribute my second career as a writer to the strength and purification I gained through suffering. Before I had personal difficulties which my faith helped me conquer, I was shallow and self centered, unable of really empathizing with the sufferings of others. Suffering carved a deep well in my soul where God's grace filled me up and now I can pour it out (hopefully) in what I write.
I love the biography of Mother Angelica, her suffering made her who she is and enabled her to be the incredible woman who built the largest Catholic media empire in the world. Each time she suffered, great things would follow. I often see this pattern in my own life.
Now my mother is dying of cancer, and offering her suffering for her children. I have painful but beautiful lessons in the near future of the great value of suffering.
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Permalink Reply by Theresa Mitchell on -
Leticia, thank you for sharing, your witness is beautiful!
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Permalink Reply by Karen Cross on
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I love Mother Angelica too!! I find myself able to relate to her and her personality. I have a temper myself that I fight on a daily basis and I ask God daily to help me with that.
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Permalink Reply by Lea-Ann Virnig on -
What a great discussion! The thoughts the other women have shared I think give great insight into why God allows suffering in our lives. I just finished a study put out by ENDOW that walked through Pope John Paul II Apostolic Letter on the Christian Meaning of Human Suffering (Salvific Doloris). I highly recommend it! I learned so much and it has really called me on to the depth that suffering plays in our lives.
Many of you have shared your stories of suffering and how the Lord has used it. Enduring suffering is never easy but I am trying to embrace it and allow the Lord to use it in my life and hopefully in those around me. I know suffering is not what the Lord desires for us but I believe he allows it because he loves us and hopes to bring us to him and save us from the suffering we would face for eternity in hell. The suffering we endure on earth is in some degree "the lesser of two evils". In our sinful nature it is often only in the times of sorrow and emptiness that we turn to the Lord and ask him to fill us up because we can't do it ourselves. We finally turn over the control of our lives to Him.
Satan who is the author of sin and brought suffering into the world has now morphed the worlds view of suffering. Our world is so fearful of suffering that we are killing baby's, handicapped and elderly so they won't have to "suffer" and that those who would have to care for these people don't have to "suffer" with the burden. This is where we can see the master lies of Satan who knows the potential that suffering has on our lives to bring forth holiness and salvation.
C.S. Lewis wrote in The Problem of Pain"When our ancestors referred to pains and sorrows as God's vengeance upon sin they were not necessarily attributing evil passions to God; they may have been recognizing the good element in the idea of retribution. Until the evil man finds evil unmistakably present in his existence, in the form of pain, he is enclosed to illusion....Pain as God's megaphone is a terrible instrument; it may lead to final and unrepented rebellion. But it gives the only opportunity the bad man can have for amendment."
In Section IV, Article 26 JPII talks about how our response to suffering, regardless of origin (whether as a result of our own misdirected will or as an occurrence and consequence of natural evil), will determine whether we are united to Christ. Jesus Christ is the only one who can give our suffering supernatural purpose and meaning. Suffering with Christ is an attitude. We must be intentional in uniting our sufferings, even those that seem trivial or insignificant, with Christ to bring forth their sanctifying power and to allow God to use them to be supernaturally fruitful.
Some great examples to us of enduring trial and suffering are like some of you said - Christ and Mary. Jesus Christ through the Paschal Mystery; the suffering, death and resurrection of Christ gives us the perfect example of how our greatest sufferings can bring forth our greatest opportunities. Mary is the perfect example of fully conforming to the Father's will in our lives - giving all to him and not seeking the glory for ourselves. "Behold I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be done to me according to your word." Some others are Saint Gianna Beretta Molla and Blessed Margaret of Castello.
The study I did ended with this reflection: "Suffering is present in the world for this very reason: "in order to release love, in order to give birth to works of love towards neighbor, in order to transform the whole of human civilization into a civilization of love." We will be asked to account for our actions when we stand before God on the Day of Judgement; each act of love undertaken by us for the good of another has the supernatural value of an act of love done for Christ himself. But it is not fear of Divine Judgement that motivates us to do good works; it is love for Christ and love for our neighbor. It is this type of love that compels us to "stop" at the suffering of our neighbor, to have "compassion" on others, and to want to help wherever possible."
Just going back through this study and reflecting on it again has called me on. Thanks! God Bless!
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Permalink Reply by Abby Sasscer on -
Dear Theresa,
It is great you brought up the topic of suffering. It reminds me of an experience I had at the hospital after having been diagnosed with Congestive Heart Failure. Since I don't fit in the category for a CHF patient (don't smoke or drink , no family history), my doctors had 2 theories: it was most likely connected with my third pregnancy (peripartum caridomyophathy) or that I had inhaled an "ideopathic unknown virus" that "happened" to land on my heart.
With that being said, I was lying on the hospital bed barely breathing, a nurse came in and asked "Are you mad at God for sending you this illness?"
I was taken aback by her question but had to ponder it deeply. While pondering and praying, I recalled receiving a phone call from my father wanting badly to talk to me after hearing the bad news. When I answered the phone, my father couldn't even talk......all I heard from the other line was a old man sobbing like a little child aching for his little daughter laying on the hospital bed.
The nurse came back and the Holy Spirit inspired me with these words. I said that "When God created this universe, He created us to be perfectly united with Him. Suffering, disease and death, however, entered into this world as a result of SIN and not God. As I recall my father sobbing on the phone, I realized NO father finds joy seeing their children sick or suffering. If my earthly father feels my pain, my Heavenly Father feels my pain as well.
I then told her a story about my husband and my son taking a stroll at the park. My son got distracted and missed a step or two and fell on his knees. It wasn't his father's fault that he fell. His father didn't make Him fall. However, his father, gently picked him up, comforted him, carressed him and reminded him to always stay close to Papa and not to wander off to another path. He then took my son out to ice cream. My son learned a lesson that day to keep an eye on the path, realized how much his Papa loves him and got ICE CREAM at the end !
My point to all these anecdotes is simple: When we suffer, we are simply experiencing the effects of sin, (either personal or communal..doesn't really matter) because we are ONE Body in Christ. When one part of us is ill, the whole body could feel it. When we suffer, we have to fight the urge to be bitter towards God and push Him away. We simply have to do everything we can to stay close to Him always for He is the source of our comfort, strength and healing. His love for us is so infinite that at the end, He NEVER FAILS to bring about a GREATER GOOD !
Sorry for the long post but I just had to pour out my heart !
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Permalink Reply by Lea-Ann Virnig on
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That is a beautiful testimony Abby! Thanks for sharing!
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Permalink Reply by Abby Sasscer on
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Thanks for listening !
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Permalink Reply by Christine Robertson on -
I think carol is exactly right. Sometimes, the lesson that I am able to learn from suffering is immediately obvious and I am able to thank God that he cares enough to be able to use my fallenness to teach me to be more like him. Other times, the suffering is not mine, yet hurts as if it is, and I am unable to see any benefit from the pain. I am currently struggling with just this pain and finding it difficult to say, "Not my will, but your will be done." I think it is important that we do not resile from this difficulty, but that we discuss suffering in the light of God's love.
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Permalink Reply by Diana H. on -
This makes me think of Mary, who told Saint Bernadette that happiness could not be guaranteed in life, only in the after life.
Suffering is a hard topic, but once I heard a priest once say that the best thing you could do with your suffering is to imagine Jesus on the cross and unite your suffering with His as a sacrifice. I have done this, and it really helps me. I have a husband who is chronically ill, so I know how grating constant physical suffering can be. I sure hope your suffering is only temporary.
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