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Permalink Reply by SAHMinIL on February 4, 2010 at 3:33pm

This is from John Martignoni @ Bible Christian Society

If you want to call yourself Catholic, but you want to pick and choose for yourself which of the Church's teachings to accept and which to reject, you give everyone else who calls themselves Catholic the right to do the same thing.

For example, you believe women should be priests...in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 1577 states, "Only a baptized man validly receives ordination...For this reason the ordination of women is not possible!" You don't believe that...well, that's fine...[RIP] just tear that page out of your Catechism...you just made it a Catechism of your Catholic Church...not mine.

But remember, if you can throw doctrines out, so can everyone else who calls themselves Catholic. That gives Joe Parishioner over at St. Doubting Thomas Catholic Church the right to throw out the Church's social justice teachings...he doesn't feel like feeding the hungry, caring for the poor, and all that other "bleeding heart" stuff - Paragraphs 2401 -2463 [RIP]...he just made it a Catechism of his Catholic Church...not mine and not yours.

You believe contraception is okay? Paragraph 2370 says contraception is intrinsically evil! [RIP] Joe Parishioner doesn't like what the Church teaches on the death penalty - Paragraphs 2266-2267[RIP]. You don't like what it teaches on pages 55-60 [RIP]. He doesn't like what it teaches on pages 128-140 [RIP]

Can you see what's happening? I heard it said once that there is a shortage of vocations to the priesthood in the United States, but no shortage of vocations to the Papacy! If we don't believe in all of it, if we each appoint ourselves Pope and throw out a doctrine here or a doctrine there, then our faith is no longer Catholic.

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Permalink Reply by Vicki Kapron on February 8, 2010 at 11:01am

I love John M.... and he is sincere in teaching the truth, but sometimes we have to dig deeper behind the questions (so easily influenced by the world in which we live), to the heart of the person and whether or not there is a sincere interest to understand... and then we can answer with a gentle response, leading on that journey of discovery of greater truth.
Gentleness and kindness goes a long way in opening people's hearts to God and his truth.

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Permalink Reply by SAHMinIL on February 4, 2010 at 3:37pm

Now with that said! DOUBT or having QUESTIONS is NORMAL many have doubt and question things. That's NOT a problem, that's how we learn. There's a difference between having doubt and questioning why we do this and having flat out rejection of a teaching.

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Permalink Reply by Cheryl Rxxx on February 4, 2010 at 4:03pm

SAHMinIL--thanks for your quick response.

Point taken (RIP) and trying to be my own Pope. Hadn't thought of it that way. I would say I don't flat out REJECT the teaching and I DO question it.

I believe I am very spiritual and I want discuss these issues with others so my faith grows. I have explored other religions but still am most comfortable with Catholicism and its traditions. My Husband and I want to raise our children Catholic.

Growing up my parents taught us Catholicism is the only way and one NEVER questions anything about it. It just is and accept it. That has never been *good* enough for me. I want to have the personal faith not just go through the actions and take everything because my parents /Priest/Pope etc say it is just because it has been for millenniums...I am not trying to be argumentative - I am really just trying to learn.

While I get your point on throwing out doctrine and then it is no longer Catholic-- heck maybe I am doing the wrong thing by continuing to "be" Catholic... gee whiz can you tell I am in a confusing, spiritual place right now? For some reason that discussion with my friend kind of rocked me a bit...

That said I absolutely LOVE Faith and Family Podcasts and have been incorporating a lot of their ideas into my family's life.

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Permalink Reply by SAHMinIL on February 4, 2010 at 4:26pm

It's OKAY that you have questions and DOUBT and want to LEARN and DIVE INTO the WHY and seek better answers then "just because I said so". That doesn't work with kids, Why can't I see that movie? Because I said NO! But why? Because I said NO!! End of discussion!

NOT!! We at times need a better and deeper understanding and I think it's GREAT that you are doing that! It's good that you want deeper answers then "because I said so". There is really good explanations, explanations better then I said so to many of the Church teachings. So it's great that you are seeking them out!

There's a difference in truly knowing and understanding a Church teaching and turn around and say well they are wrong, then saying You know I just don't understand what the big idea is about birth control. I just don't understand how the Church can say it's evil. Okay I will NOT use it, but I still don't understand why it's wrong. Or I would never have an abortion, but surely I can't tell you that it's wrong.

I think we ALL at some points become our OWN Pope, I know I HAVE on somethings. I just also know that with growth and learning I have come to a better understanding of Catholicism and my own Faith that I'm happy to leave the job to Pope Benedict 16th in Rome.

I think Catholicism for Dummies will be a good read for you! I know that it helped me understand a lot of things!

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Permalink Reply by Cheryl Rxxx on February 4, 2010 at 4:35pm

Thanks I will read that...I have paged through it a bit and did find it interesting.

Also looking at my original post - I stated "I do not agree" so I can see where you were/are going with the questioning vs. saying they are wrong. I should have chosen my words more carefully- because I really did mean that I question---thanks for helping me clarify that and for understanding :-)

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Permalink Reply by Patricia on February 5, 2010 at 10:53am

I would venture to say that most people who disagree with or question the Church's wisdom on certain topics/issues have a misunderstanding of what the Catholic Church REALLY teaches. Pray for guidance from the Holy Spirit. Seek the advice of a faithful Catholic priest on the matter. Human Life International (www.hli.org) & One More Soul (http://onemoresoul.com/) are excellent resources regarding the Church's teaching on contraception, & why contraception & abortion are fruits of the same tree. Faith is a gift. May God bless you & lead you to see the truth & beauty of the One, Holy, Catholic & Apostolic Church -- founded by He Who Is Truth & Beauty.

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Permalink Reply by Lucy Sheahan on February 6, 2010 at 4:18am

Father John Corapi, S.O.L.T. said once "1000 struggles still does not equal one single doubt. I struggle with things all the time, and boy do I struggle. That does not mean however that I have doubted".

You can have faith in the guidance of the Church and yet still struggle with things. He is a very holy priest who converted after being an extremely wealthy real estate agent in Hollywood and addicted on drugs, and finally homeless. He has video tapes on the Catechism and is a very powerful speaker!

I use Catholic Answers website for questions I wonder about. They have online apologists you can ask about things, as well as discussion forums for almost any question you can come up with. Try them at www.catholic.com

In Christ,
Lucy
www.mysticalrosedesign.com

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Permalink Reply by SarahD on February 7, 2010 at 7:30am

I think that questioning is always a good thing. It's really important to understand why the Church teaches what it does. I also think there's a difference between, say, questioning Church teaching on contraception and actually using contraception.

I'm a cradle Catholic and Catholicism has always made more sense to me than any other religion. That said, the contraception teaching is *really* hard for me to accept. I have very difficult cycles and both our kids were conceived unexpectedly while we were using NFP to avoid pregnancy. Not only that, but I got fired from my job when I was pregnant with the first (and later found out that it was because I was pregnant), and I had a life-threatening complication (severe preeclampsia) with the second. So pregnancy in my mind is connected with some pretty scary stuff. We don't want any more kids because I'm afraid of a recurrence of preeclampsia, but I'm terrified of a third surprise. I go to and NFP-only doctor who diagnosed me with PCOS and but me on medication for it, so hopefully that will help make my cycles more regular. Still, having to rely on NFP is the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my entire life. I understand intellectually the reasoning against contraception, but it still seems like an unreasonable burden to me, at least for someone in my situation. The only reason I don't use birth control is fear of hell. So, I understand where you're coming from. As long as you're not actually going against any teachings is fine to question and come to greater understanding.

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Permalink Reply by Cheryl Rxxx on February 7, 2010 at 10:44am

Girls- you have given me a lot to think about. I am not sure what is going on with me spiritually. I have been thinking a lot about being Catholic and what that means to me. There is plenty I understand and plenty I hadn't thought about and am now wanting more answers. I have a framed saying in my daughter's room which has Proverbs 22:6 "Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it." This verse has been popping up everywhere the last few weeks- in the most curious places. It makes me think God is trying to get my attention and that I better listen up...

I appreciate the conversation and insight-- I need to go do some praying. Mass really spoke to me last week and I hope this week it does as well. God bless...

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Permalink Reply by Lucy Sheahan on February 7, 2010 at 5:07pm

SarahD,
I too struggle with NFP because I can't have more kids for health reasons. It's a very difficult cross. Have you ever read Trustful Surrender to Divine Providence by Blessed Claude de Columbiere? I have to read it about once a year to remind me that it's all for a reason. You can buy the book or read it online. Here is a link to a version which includes notes for contemplation:
http://www.stillpointcontemplativelibrary.com/TrustfulSurrender.pdf

Also, Cheryl,
Have you mentioned to your friend that the Church condemns the sin not the sinner? This article gives a sample discussion with someone who disagrees with the Catholic Church's teaching on this: http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0407sbs.asp
In Christ,
Lucy
www.mysticalrosedesign.com

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Permalink Reply by Alice on February 17, 2010 at 10:13am

I was in your shoes many years ago....when birth control first was available and you would go to hell if you used it.....so my pastor said. I had 7 pregnancies in as many years and had tried NFP and had 2 babies! I am also a cradle Catholic, practice my faith today and it is so important to me and always has been. With that being said, I have struggled, questioned - once I realized I could after years of saying Yes Father, Yes Sister! I am over 70 now and still question and challenge and want to learn and understand. When I was young and my Doctor said absolutely no more pregnancies for health reasons, I really struggled. My pastor said I just had to follow my faith and if I had more babies, so be it. After months of prayer and struggle, I talked to the younger associate many, many times. We prayed, discussed, prayed, discussed and he talked about discernment as well. It was not a snap decision but after many meetings I did end up using birth control. As an older adult I talked to my new pastor and shared my story with RCIA classes when talking about discernment. I have never felt my husband and I were wrong and felt comfortable in our decision. I don't think Christ wants sheep that just follow without asking and altho I did that for many years, I do not anymore. I always ask questions and share freely and feel very comfortable in my faith today.
I am not a "cafeteria Catholic" by any means but do not accept blindly anymore what men have decided by themselves!

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